Videopac / Odyssey2 forum

Programming the Videopac / Odyssey2 => Homebrews => Topic started by: ANDYRYALS on July 12, 2009, 06:03:46 PM



Title: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on July 12, 2009, 06:03:46 PM
I would like to announce that Myself and Rene have produced a brand new batch of videopac PCB's. If there are any members that would like any PCB's ordering for there own homebrew then please send me a PM, we can sell you as few or as many as you like!


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Seob on July 12, 2009, 07:41:28 PM
Nice to see that you have teamed up with Rene.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on July 12, 2009, 10:16:22 PM
Technical details of these PCB's will follow here as soon as I've received my test PCB.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on July 13, 2009, 10:56:31 PM
So someone finally did this!  ;D

Outstanding! Hopefully many homebew and maybe even Packrat will take advantage of this.

(now if we could only get new plastic cartridge cases)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: steelballs on July 14, 2009, 07:40:29 AM
I spoke to my neighbour a while back about making plastic cases (an ex philips hardware product manager). He said the main problem is the cost of the template and the fact it is for a relatively small production run cripples the idea before it gets going, certainly if you want it done in Europe. I seem to remember grgh looking into this a while back as well via his wife's family outside of Europe ??? and I think it was roughly the same story.

To reduce costs he said it would be better to drop the handle on the cartridge to simplify the design and maybe open up other production techniques but no-one wants a videopac cartridge without the handle I think.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on July 14, 2009, 09:14:42 AM
The cheapest way to produce plastic VP cartridges is still get to large batches from your friends from the Forums!!! A similar scheme should be set up like on atari age where you can buy old cart cases for a few cents at a time.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: grgh on July 14, 2009, 09:47:32 AM
Yep, my wifes family own several plastic component factories in China, and it wasn't even cost effective doing it direct from there for such low quantities!


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: TedFoolery on July 14, 2009, 06:20:04 PM
I always wondered how hard it would be to modify an Atari (traitor!) cartridge to work in the O2. The cart physically fits into the hole, however the pins do not match.

Empty Atari cases are easily found, so if it only takes a quick mod to convert it to O2, it may be a viable solution.

I'm sure new PCB boards would have to be designed for it.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on July 14, 2009, 08:19:26 PM
Ted,

nice idea, i have just been playing around with a 2600 cartridge case and a odyssey2 case and physically they are quite similar, perhaps when we get the new PCB's we may be able to do something with them to customise them into atari carts. John Dondzilla the famous /vectrex programmer used to use coleco carts to fit vectrex pcb's and these worked fine.

PS do you want any PCB for pick axe pete 2????  ;:) ;:) ;:) send me a PM if your interested ???


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on July 29, 2009, 10:20:52 AM
Our PCB's arrived today!


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on July 29, 2009, 10:46:51 AM
I've received my Videopac test PCB!

(http://home.kpn.nl/~mdr.vd.enden/download/new_PCB-bare.jpg)

Features:

- fits in standard Videopac cartridge case
- compatible with Eprom types 2732, 2764, 27128, 27256, 27512 and all pin compatible variations and Eeprom types 2864 and 28256
- compatible with The Voice
- option to connect pin B of the cartridge connector to ground (for non-Plus or non-Voice games)

Limitations:
- the current design does not fit in standard Odyssey2 cartridge cases without modifications
- 3k, 6k and 12k games are not supported (address-line A10 is not connected)
- the maximum available address space for games is 8k
- the PCB doesn't have holes for the metal spring, so the metal slider can not be used

PCB with Eprom:
(http://home.kpn.nl/~mdr.vd.enden/download/new_PCB-eprom.jpg)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Seob on July 29, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
they look great.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on July 30, 2009, 10:30:52 PM
Looks good, but won't
Quote
"the current design does not fit in standard Odyssey2 cartridge cases without modifications"
be an issue. Or are these a first test run before the final ones come out?


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on July 31, 2009, 09:23:00 AM
The problem is the small holes in the red circles in the picture below. To fit in an Odyssey2 cartridge case these holes would need to be at a different position.

(http://home.kpn.nl/~mdr.vd.enden/download/new_PCB-holes.jpg)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on July 31, 2009, 02:19:30 PM
Yes, the PCB should be slightly modified to fit inside an 02 cart case, remember that problems were invented so solutions could be found (RYALS 2009!)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: RickO2 on July 31, 2009, 08:05:44 PM
The traces are clear to see so if you need to cut the plastic.  Hopefully it wouldn't need to be modified to the point of relocating a trace.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Seob on July 31, 2009, 08:36:22 PM
Silly question, do they fit in a videopac cartridge? Since you're talking about the o2. I thought they had identical cartridges.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on July 31, 2009, 09:18:01 PM

Features:

- fits in standard Videopac cartridge case



Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on July 31, 2009, 09:24:25 PM
The traces are clear to see so if you need to cut the plastic.  Hopefully it wouldn't need to be modified to the point of relocating a trace.

No, for an Odyssey2 cartridge case the holes would need to be 2 to 3 mm further away from the cartridge connector.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on August 04, 2009, 11:17:15 PM
So I assume nobody is interested in ordering a few of these new PCB's now?


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on August 05, 2009, 02:32:31 AM
So I assume nobody is interested in ordering a few of these new PCB's now?


I'd wait a bit. May take a bit of time, but I would think that homebrew folks would want these. I would, if I was doing one.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on August 05, 2009, 04:31:49 PM
If I continue getting for Robot City then the 1st batch of PCB's will be taken up. I think I have about 60 orders and we will only be producing 75 PCB's.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on August 09, 2009, 03:40:09 AM
So this is just a limited thing? Or will more be done at a later date?


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on August 09, 2009, 02:05:40 PM
75 PCB's will be produced now for Robot City. I will send the order to the manufacturer on August 11, so if you hurry you can still order some PCB's.
More PCB's can be produced later, but the price per PCB will be lower if I order more than 50 of them.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: manopac on August 09, 2009, 03:17:19 PM
how much is one PCB if you take 100 ?

The problem I see is that you still need to buy old cartridges for the cases (which also should be all of the european kind, meaning no Odyssey2 or USA produced Videopac carts) - so for a release its actually cheaper to just modify the PCBs you anyway have inside the cases ...

on a plus side: the new PCBs are definitly of higher quality, as they are not 30 years old and a lot easier to solder than the old ones :)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on August 09, 2009, 10:32:13 PM
For 75 PCB's we need to pay $3 per PCB.

For 100 PCB's it will be approximately $2.66 per PCB.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on August 10, 2009, 03:57:32 PM
how much is one PCB if you take 100 ?

The problem I see is that you still need to buy old cartridges for the cases (which also should be all of the european kind, meaning no Odyssey2 or USA produced Videopac carts) - so for a release its actually cheaper to just modify the PCBs you anyway have inside the cases ...

on a plus side: the new PCBs are definitly of higher quality, as they are not 30 years old and a lot easier to solder than the old ones :)


It is stupidly expensive to produce new cartridge cases, we have had a forum member look at producing cases in China and even this was expensive. So buying a load of old cart cases if cheaper, or better still buy some from a collector! I have just binned over 100 old PCB's, these mainly had some of the more common games on them. I think I found a new Pick Axe Pete PROM pcb type, it appears dutch and french pick axe pete PCB construction was different.  Secondly modifying a PCB is a pain in the arse, and the quality of the release will be compromised, so thats why I decided to get new PCB's oredred.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on August 11, 2009, 05:53:58 AM
Sorry to forget, but was the cart case on this forum? And if so, where? I don't recall there being an actual price for the cases stated. I still would love to see it done. If they can do it for the Vectrex, they sure can do it for the old O2/VP.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on August 11, 2009, 10:00:42 AM
Sean Kelly did the Vectrex carts and I looked into doing it but it will cost several thousand Euros just to produce the last and then there is the cost of pressing the cases alone. If you have CNC milling equipment then this is actually pretty easy. Vectrex also has a big fan base than the Videopac so as a consequence an author can reap his money back, I'll just about break even producing Robot City.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: grgh on August 11, 2009, 10:22:25 AM
Sorry to forget, but was the cart case on this forum? And if so, where? I don't recall there being an actual price for the cases stated. I still would love to see it done. If they can do it for the Vectrex, they sure can do it for the old O2/VP.

http://www.videopac.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=739&highlight=china
http://www.videopac.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=613&highlight=china  *price here
http://videopac.nl/forum/index.php?topic=149.0


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on August 12, 2009, 01:27:36 AM
Okay, so the past quote was around $2,000 U.S. $ to create the mold for the cartridge cases (thanks for the links grgh).

I'll have to admit it is a bit steep, but it would be so darn nice. So would the plastic + boxes too!

It is times like this that I would love to be in better financial situation. I would be more than willing to pay for this process, and order cases + boxes, but I just don't have the funds. Maybe some year... I would have no problem helping out with this... when I can of course.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on August 09, 2012, 05:26:13 AM
Old topic, but I'm guessing these PCBs are being used in the recent home-brew releases. Is the issue with not exactly fitting O2 cartridge cases still in existence?


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on August 09, 2012, 11:44:58 AM
Old topic, but I'm guessing these PCBs are being used in the recent home-brew releases. Is the issue with not exactly fitting O2 cartridge cases still in existence?

Yes, these PCB's are used in the recent home-brew releases, and yes, the issue with not exactly fitting O2 cartridge cases is still there. However if someone needs a large batch of PCB's that should fit in O2 cartridge cases I can adjust the design of the PCB.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on August 16, 2012, 10:15:54 PM
or you could just piggy back a newly burned eprom on an old eprom, a technique used by others!  ;)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on August 17, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
or you could just piggy back a newly burned eprom on an old eprom, a technique used by others!  ;)

Sure, if you like cheap and dirty.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: manopac on August 17, 2012, 09:49:57 AM
it ain't pretty but it works ;)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: ANDYRYALS on August 17, 2012, 07:35:11 PM
Thats why I produced good quality PCB and new EPROMS! Thanks Renee.  ;)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rene_G7400 on August 19, 2012, 02:04:31 PM
Thats why I produced good quality PCB and new EPROMS! Thanks Renee.  ;)

Yes, and I'm glad you did that. You were the first to do it, and now I'm using new PCB's for a lot of new releases.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: SjongeS on January 31, 2022, 09:30:38 PM
Is there still a need for new cases?


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Rafael on February 01, 2022, 01:14:37 AM
Is there still a need for new cases?
Always.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Ozyr on February 02, 2022, 06:17:04 PM
Is there still a need for new cases?

Are you talking cases, like the plastic one that hold the cart, or cart shells?


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: SjongeS on February 02, 2022, 09:17:38 PM
Cart shells, to start with.

Without the spring and metal bottom part. Or perhaps that could be plastic too.

I have my own moldmaking company in the Netherlands.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Tom Beck on February 02, 2022, 10:03:41 PM
Is there still a need for new cases?

New clear crystal cases for Videopac games are a dream, I think, for many of us. Since years I need many of them also for the new Videopac homebrews.

When you sell these, I will be your best customer.  :)


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: SjongeS on February 03, 2022, 09:24:34 PM
I have never seen a completely clear case, are these the same size as the ones with a black back?


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Tom Beck on February 03, 2022, 10:34:54 PM
Yes.
The clear cases have the same dimensions. Especially the lower side is after 30 years very fragile in the old case. The 5 small parts that hold the game cartridge often break off easily. Then the game cartridge no longer holds properly.

Therefore, new cases would be an absolute dream for me. This would make collecting the homebrew games much easier, because they are delivered without cases.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Pickaxe Brad! on February 04, 2022, 12:25:40 AM
I've never had a Videopac case, so be aware I don't know what I'm saying here:

It looks like the clear cases have the same outer dimensions, but the tabs/fins on the inside look different.  The homebrews come with a specific hole pattern the the clear cases would need to support.

Perhaps a redesign would be best: a clear case shell that you put the printed insert into and then a stronger/more durable plastic piece goes into it to hold the cartridge.


Title: Re: NEW PCB's
Post by: Pickaxe Brad! on February 04, 2022, 12:41:33 AM
Also, I just bought 8 homebrews and will be buying more, so I'd like a bunch of clear cases of you were to make them.