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Author Topic: Munchers AI  (Read 11479 times)
rico
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« on: February 05, 2017, 10:14:23 AM »

Hi all,

First post here so please go gentle on me Smiley

I am working on porting K.C. Munchkin to the C64 (don't shoot me), and is curious about any opinions on the AI of the Munchers.

For Pac-Man, the AI of the ghosts is quite well documented (and also quite interesting), but I can't find anything similar for K.C. Munchkin.

Of course I could always come up with my own take on the AI, but it would at least be nice to have some inputs from more experienced gamers (I actually never had the game for my G7000, though I actually ordered it yesterday)

So, any input is warmly welcome!
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2017, 11:35:25 AM »

I have ported Munchkin to Flash and have invested a lot of time observing the Munchers. I am convinced that their movement is totally random. Even when you have eaten one they do not apply a path to the centre of the maze to restore themselves. They can just wander around for the rest of that level without ever becomming a threat again.
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rico
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2017, 01:11:44 PM »

That is my observation too, but I would love to be proven wrong.

Is your Munchkin port available on-line somewhere?

And thanks for replying!
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2017, 08:45:55 PM »

http://videopac.nl/forum/index.php?action=arcade;sa=play;game=43
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rico
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2017, 08:53:39 PM »

Thanks! Looking awesome - feels closer to the original than my port Tongue
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Doug
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2017, 03:00:31 PM »

Since figuring out the reason for the delay, the way the playfield is in blocks and you can only move when you've reached the next block, I enjoy the game more.  It makes the game a bit of a strategy game where you have to look all over the playfield and pre-plan.  That said...

1. If the game could be hacked to allow turning at any point, that would make for an interesting (and easier) game.

2. I do think there is one design flaw in the game that, unlike this one, does not add to it.  The fact that you die if you run into the ghosts at the wrong time while they are flashing does no good for the game.  Timing turns is one thing, but timing eating the ghosts at the correct point in the flashing period is just ridiculous.  I'd love a hack that allows you to eat flashing ghosts at any point...
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rico
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 06:30:04 PM »

Since figuring out the reason for the delay, the way the playfield is in blocks and you can only move when you've reached the next block, I enjoy the game more.  It makes the game a bit of a strategy game where you have to look all over the playfield and pre-plan.  That said...

1. If the game could be hacked to allow turning at any point, that would make for an interesting (and easier) game.


While a bit frustrating at first I think that this design feature is one thing that really gives Munchkin its character. A unique feel to the game compared to other Pac-man variations.

Quote

2. I do think there is one design flaw in the game that, unlike this one, does not add to it.  The fact that you die if you run into the ghosts at the wrong time while they are flashing does no good for the game.  Timing turns is one thing, but timing eating the ghosts at the correct point in the flashing period is just ridiculous.  I'd love a hack that allows you to eat flashing ghosts at any point...
This I can agree with, it really surprised me when playing the game again.
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 07:23:07 AM »

1. If the game could be hacked to allow turning at any point, that would make for an interesting (and easier) game.

2. I do think there is one design flaw in the game that, unlike this one, does not add to it.  The fact that you die if you run into the ghosts at the wrong time while they are flashing does no good for the game.  Timing turns is one thing, but timing eating the ghosts at the correct point in the flashing period is just ridiculous.  I'd love a hack that allows you to eat flashing ghosts at any point...

Well, with those two changes it would be a completely different game that wouldn't play like Munchkin at all. In that case you wouldn't need to make a Munchkin conversion, but just another Pac-Man clone ...
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 03:26:48 PM »

Thanks! Looking awesome - feels closer to the original than my port Tongue

haha thanx Smiley
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Janzl
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 03:29:37 PM »

Since figuring out the reason for the delay, the way the playfield is in blocks and you can only move when you've reached the next block, I enjoy the game more.  It makes the game a bit of a strategy game where you have to look all over the playfield and pre-plan.  That said...

I was really happy that Munchkin was programmed that way. It made converting the game much easier. I started converting Turtles (where you can turn at any point) but it really made me struggle into finding a way to avoid the turtle running out of the maze.

Oh and check out this nice port for the Atari 7800:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66iFearS5ws

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Doug
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 06:13:43 PM »

I don't think allowing you to munch all ghosts during the flashing period would make it an entirely different game, but allowing turns at any point would.... they would both be interesting for hacks or homebrews...
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rico
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 07:09:01 PM »

1. If the game could be hacked to allow turning at any point, that would make for an interesting (and easier) game.

2. I do think there is one design flaw in the game that, unlike this one, does not add to it.  The fact that you die if you run into the ghosts at the wrong time while they are flashing does no good for the game.  Timing turns is one thing, but timing eating the ghosts at the correct point in the flashing period is just ridiculous.  I'd love a hack that allows you to eat flashing ghosts at any point...

Well, with those two changes it would be a completely different game that wouldn't play like Munchkin at all. In that case you wouldn't need to make a Munchkin conversion, but just another Pac-Man clone ...

Changing the controls would definately change the game to something else. As for the flashing ghosts I think that it just got to be clear when you can or can't eat the ghosts.

Which brings up another question - how close must a port be? But that's another topic...
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rico
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 07:14:30 PM »


I was really happy that Munchkin was programmed that way. It made converting the game much easier. I started converting Turtles (where you can turn at any point) but it really made me struggle into finding a way to avoid the turtle running out of the maze.

Oh and check out this nice port for the Atari 7800:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66iFearS5ws


The Atari port is definately a nice looking port (haven't tried so hard to tell how it plays). I am considering making use of the C64 capabilities for the gfx, but right now I've done a (more or less) pixel-to-pixel conversion of the graphics.
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Janzl
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 08:09:54 AM »

Well, if you need beta testers, I have severall C64's (all PAL) and an UltimateII so I can easily test it on real hardware. In Vice too off course Wink
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rico
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 03:07:20 PM »

Well, if you need beta testers, I have severall C64's (all PAL) and an UltimateII so I can easily test it on real hardware. In Vice too off course Wink
I have a few more things to fix before calling it a beta, but I will definately keep you and the forum posted.
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