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Author Topic: Prototype List 2009  (Read 13583 times)
ANDYRYALS
Give this man a Jopac!
******
Posts: 1302


Oh Bollocks can I afford that Ebay item?


« on: February 19, 2009, 11:48:15 AM »

PROJECT       - Videopac Prototype datebase
LIST HOLDER  - Andrew Ryals
VERSION        - v0.08
LAST UPDATE -20/6/09

What is a Prototype?
A prototype is often used as part of the product design process to allow engineers and designers the ability to explore design alternatives, test theories and confirm performance prior to starting production of a new product. Engineers use their experience to tailor the prototype according to the specific unknowns still present in the intended design. For example, some prototypes are used to confirm and verify consumer interest in a proposed design where as other prototypes will attempt to verify the performance or suitability of a specific design approach. In general, an iterative series of prototypes will be designed, constructed and tested as the final design emerges and is prepared for production. With rare exceptions, multiple iterations of prototypes are used to progressively refine the design. A common strategy is to design, test, evaluate and then modify the design based on analysis of the prototype. (Thanks to Wikipedia)

ALPHA PROTOTYPES

An ALPHA prototype is a unique cartridge (only one in existance), or a game which was never officially releaseed.

GAME                                              RELEASED                OWNER    COPIES              ORIGIN  EPROM  LABEL MACHINE

 
 
TMS2764 typewriter sticker Videopac, no Plus graphics
Robot City Eproms, 2x D2732 + 74LS04 typewriter sticker special PCB, never used for released games
Requins Eprom, probably 2764 printed, black and white Jopac (Shark Hunter)
Baseball Eprom in socket, MCM68766 typewriter sticker Odyssey 3
Attack of the Timelord Eprom in socket, MCM68764 typewriter sticker Odyssey 3
Flash Point Eprom in socket, MCM68766 typewriter sticker Odyssey 3
Modem Program Eprom in socket, HN462532 typewriter sticker Odyssey 3








Attack of the Timelord (o3 prototype)   Never                      Rene       1                        ?
                               (o3 copy?)                                      Dieter      1                      ?
Baseball        (o3 prototype)                Never                     Rene        1                      ?
                   (o3 prototype, copy?)                                   Dieter      1                       ?
Commando Nocturo (NightFighter)         Never                      A.Ryals    1                       Brazil
Crazy Horses                                     Never                      A.Ryals   1                        Belgium
Flashpoint                                                                                   1                       ?
Flashpoint     (o3 prototype)                Never                     Rene       1                        ?
                  (o3 prototype, copy)?                                   Dieter      1                        ?
Freedom Fighters (o3 prototype, original?)                          Dieter      1                         ?
Interpol                                                                         ?N.Sapin  1                         Europe
Martian Threat                                  Never                      A.Ryals    1                         Europe
Melrep                                                                       Bas Ditta   1                        Europe
Modem Program (o3 Prototype)            Never                      Rene        1                      
                      (copy?)                                                   Dieter       1                        ?
Pick Axe Pete    (o3 prototype, original?)                                                                     ?
Robot City                                        Never                      A.Ryals    2                        Europe
                                                                                   Rene                                 Europe
Shark Hunter (Requins)                                                    Rene        1                        ?Europe
Sherlock Holmes                                Never                      Rene        1                        ?             MCM68766          none      Odyssey 2
Spaans                                                                         Bas Ditta   1                       Europe
Spiderman                                                                     Bas ditta                            Europe
Tutankham                                                                    ?             1                        Europe


TOTAL CONFIRMED = 23

BETA PROTOTYPE

A BETA prototype is a cartridge of a pre-release version of an officially released game.

Game                                              VP Release number     Owner     Known Copies     Location

Air Battle      (No plus graphics)                                         Rene       1                      Europe
Air Battle      (+graphics) NachtVlucht proto                         A.Ryals    1                      Europe
Balao Travesso                                                               A.Ryals    1                       Brazil
Blobbers                                                                        Grgh        1                       ?
Bowling / Basketball                                                         A.Ryals    1                        Europe
Football                                                                        A.Ryals    1                         Europe
Freedom Fighter  (Simply labelled 39)                                 A.Ryals   1                          Europe
Frogger                                                                         Seob       1                        ?
Gato e Rato                                                                   A.Ryals    1                         Brazil
KC Munchkin  (Advanced Copy)                                          Rene       2?                       Europe  (4k)Rom ,   engineering prototype   O2
                                                                                    Janzl                                Europe
Math-a-Magic                                                                A.Ryals     1                        USA
Norseman                                                                      Grgh        1                         ?
Pick Axe Pete                                                                A.Ryals     1                       ?Europe/USA
Pick Axe Pete                                                                 Rene        1                        USA
Powerlords                                                                     Grgh        1                        USA
Speedway / Spinout / Cryptologic                                      A.Ryals     1                        USA
Stone Sling                                                                    A.Ryals     1                        Europe
Tischfusball (Football)                                                      A.Ryals     1                        Europe


CONFIRMED TOTAL 19

*************************************
*RUMOURED PROTO'S / PRE-RELEASE VERSIONS*
*************************************
  
Huh??
4 (Labeled zeeslag tankslag)

BRAZILLIAN
A Turma De Monica

JOPAC
Syracuse
Defenders (Exojet but without+)
Restaurant (Chez Maxime)

PARKER
Qbert
Popeye
Star Wars (RUMOURED)

MAGNAVOX
Killer Bees
He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
Pinball (early prototype)
Type n Tell

Tutankahmum -> Tutankham
Exorjet -> Exojet

PHILLIPS
4 in a Row
Basket Ball (Basketball+)
Philips Billiard (Billiards+)
Blackhole
Catapult
Clay Pigeon+
Clean up yer act
Cosmic Conflict
Crazy Chase
Freedom Fighters (Labelled Defender)
Gunslinger
Killer Bees v1
Killer Bees v2 (No Sound version)
Killer Bees v3 (Infinite lives)
Killer Bees v4 (Easy version)
Labyrinth Game (Without Supermind)
Loony Balloon (non + version)
Monkey Shines
Phantom House
Playtag
Plantage
Pick Axe Pete (labelled H. henkie)
Pick Axe Pete (3rd variant)
Race (Labelled Autorace)
Red Baron - Philips (59+ w/no + graphics)
Space Monster
Space Rendevous (on its own)
Terrahawks (Labelled Zelda)
The Mousing Cat (labelled Kist em Muis)
The Pink Panther (RUMOURED)
Troj
Turtles

UNCOMFIRED = 42

********************************************************
*POTENTIAL PROTOTYPES BUT PROBABLY NO MORE THAN PIRATE COPIES*
********************************************************
I have a collection of 21 bare eproms that I bought from a collector in Belgium, you need a special daughter board adaptor to run these I have the
following games on pirate release, maybe there could be a few prototypes or pre-release version of games. Some of the Eproms appear to have 2 games
on them.


33/21
25  / 35
demon attack
23 / 26
25 / 4
terror house
20 / 16
3 / 5
10 / 15
37
18 / 24
39
23 / 29
30 / 32
43
11 / 34
38
6 / 12
14 / 22
17
8 / 19




PROTOTYPE LABELS - SOME BASIC NOTES
----------------------------------------

Brazillian
---------
Brazillian Proto's have very similar label types to European labels the difference of course if that they are written in Portugese.

Canadian
---------
No known Canadian proto's exist.

European
---------
The European proto's usually have a "typed" label on the front of the cartridge. Some cartridges simply have the name of the game written on the front of the cartridge case. In some very rare cases there is nothing written on the case and it's only when the case is opened that a prototype is found. Sometimes European proto's have numbers written on them, this is significant because 1 and 7  are written differently between Europe and the UK, so it may be possible to locate the proto's origin this way.  Seob describes how he found all his prototypes,"I would guess Eindhoven, NB, the Netherlands, since they have their headquaters there. I live about 30 km from eindhoven. The first prototypes i got where found in Haps at a dumpyard. The second prototypes i got came from Boxtel a place near Eindhoven." Nicolas Sapin mentions that a lot of his proto's came from a flea market in Eindhoven.



JAPANESE
--------
No known Japanese proto's exist.

USA
---
Magnavox had a factory in Knoxville. Virtually all the prototypes which have been released from the USA always have a white label with a nice picture on the front of cartridge case and usually have to words "PROTOTYPE", or "NOT FOR RESALE", "ADVANCED COPY",written over the picture. Sometimes the labels have numbers written over the top but it's not clear what these numbers means. Perhaps the most common prototype from the USA is Pick Axe Pete where several copies are known to exist, others do exist but are scarce i.e. KC Munchkin. If Magnavox had other factories outside of Knoxville then it may be possible to trace a prototypes "birthplace", if Knoxville was the only Magnavox factory then all USA prototype's originated from Knoxville.  


********************
* PROTOTYPE ANALYSIS  *
********************

Seob / SteelBalls analysis of all of Seob's Prototypes, take it away guys :-

Air Battle proto.
After i got my eyes back in my face, we fired up a g7400 and first put in v58+ to see what the graphics where. Since Steelballs didn't have the manual for the game we couldn't get the plain in the air. After trying a few times we decided to put in the prototype and see how that looked. First thing we noted was that it is the non + version of the game. And since we didn't got the plain in the air we decided to move on to the next cart.

Nightfigter aka nachtvlucht proto
After a little studie and pressing different button on the keyboard and joystick we got the plain in the air. Some more pressing and we found out that a lot of keys where used. (i forgot to take the manual whit me that rene posted here) And some more studing of the instruments and chrashing we where able to find the enemy. After trying the cannons and air missiles we decided to use the bomb and shot the enemy into pieces. But we had used to much fuel to get the plain back to the base. Eventualy we got the enemy and returned with enough fuel to the airport but we never succed in landing the plain. I think its a great game. It's also a game that really uses the keyboard active in the gameplay. And for the videopac limitations it's a "real" flight sim. This game didn't have any + graphics.

Martian Threat
Allready on our second try we got our highscore into the 1000 points. It's graphical a great game. It doesn't use + graphics but it still is one of the most inpressive graphical games that uses standard g7000 hardware. For game play, well we didn't like it to much. The only thrill is to get a higher score every time you play. It is not very hard to get into 1000 points and the game never is very tactical. What we did notice is that if you die with less then 1000 point, the end screen shows a ufo shooting at the earth, and when the earth is hit it turns red. The first time you get 1000+ points and you die you get a differnt ending.This time there's a shot from earth that hits the ufo. The ufo then breaks into pieces. After this the only time you see this ending again is by getting a higher highscore.

Robot city
Whit this game we had the most fun. The first level is not to easy but also not to hard. It's just right. The second level is allready a greater challenge. Sometimes it really looks as if the aliens are trying to close you in, and the futher you get it seems as if the aliens are working more and more together. We havent made it pas level 4 yet but it really is a adictive game. It also doesn't have + graphics, but it also doesn't need them to be a really great game.
This trully could be a game that is worth releasing.



steelballs



Firstly thanks to Seob for taking the time to come and visit with his prototypes, unfortunately he remembered to take them with him when he left Crying or Very sad I would also definitely agree that ROBOT CITY is worth considering as a release. Out of the three games we played it was by far the most enjoyable. On level 1 it seems like it's going to be very simple to progress quite far in the game but already in level 2 it becomes apparent that you really have to have a strategy to destroy all 4 opponents or they will eliminate you with ease.

MARTIAN THREAT does look good for a videopac game but the challenge and enjoyment is not really there, if you position yourself in the middle of the screen you only have to move up and down a fraction to target the martians in the four corners (Martians throwing what look to be beachballs in my opinion!)


NIGHTFIGHTER took a bit of getting into but seemed an okay game, I'm not a big flight sim fan but as Seob commented on, it does make good use of the keyboard. My big criticism is that you see nothing until you reach your target, you just fly through blackness (hence the name?) and on the return journey you see lights marking the landing strip of your base. If you didn't have to make as much use of the keyboard it would be really mindnumbing, but you need to keep an eye on your speed, altitude, distance to the target and fuel so it keeps you busy on the way.



Special Notes
-------------
Martian Threat has now been released to the Videopac community by Dieter Keonig.
Shark Hunter has also been released into the Videopac community by Dieter Keonig
Flashpoint (o3 prototype) is not the same release as Dieter Keonig's


-The KC Munchkin prototypes are different copies but the labels are exactly the same.

- Dieter Keonig informs me that he think his o3 "prototypes" may be copies, or
   possibly developers carts, so we have listed Dieter's "prototypes" with a "?", because
   we are not sure of authenticity.  HOWEVER there is no other copy of Pick Axe Pete,
   or Freedom Fighters,  could these be original ??


Special Thanks
--------------
Rene, Grgh, Janzl, Dieter, Seob, and of course myself!!!!

History
-------
25-2-09 - Added 5 more prototypes and corrected an error re: Attack of timelords
              thanks, Rene!

26-2-09 - Added 3 Magnavox proto's  - Bowling / Basketball, math-a,magic, and
              Speedway.

6-6-09   - Added some notes regarding prototype labels.

16-6-09  - Added some information from Seob and Steelballs and how they experimented with some of my prototypes.
             - Corrected a few mistakes
             - Added some informations regarding prototype locations
             - Added the location of some of the prototypes
             - Added powerlords, interpol, melrep, spiderman, flashpoint proto's, Spaans. Tutankahmum
             - Added potential proto's section
             - Combined ALL known references of prototypes on Videopac sites and produced this list  
             - Added all my "pirate" eproms to the list
             - Removed Commando Nocturo from the rumoured Brazillian games, I own it!
             - Added my prototype of Freedom Fighters but there is still an uncomfirmed version floating around (see the section)
             - Removed NachtVacht prototype from uncomfirmed list
20-6-09  - Re-classified ALPHA & BETA prototypes
             - Added the definition of prototype (thanks wikipedia)
             - Added new Pick Axe Pete beta prototype (thanks Rene)
             - Corrected a few typo errors (thanks Rene)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 07:18:20 PM by ANDYRYALS » Logged

I have 12"
manopac
Game & App Development
Give this man a Jopac!
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Posts: 1138



« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2009, 12:20:07 PM »

Definition = copied from Wikipedia ... dude, you should really give credit if you don't write things yourself ...

and your definition of alpha and beta is quite confusing ... as the words are already used in software development to tell how far a version actually is like in "alpha" -> more or less a playable demo with features still missing and "beta" as a feature-finished game before playtesting and removal of bugs

maybe you should make a differentiation of "prototype" -> pre-release version of a game which is different from the release (or not released at all) and "review-version"/"pirated-version" -> same as released version, review if coming from Philips/Magnavox, pirated if coming from unknown source ... (like those baaaaad Philips employee's back in the days Wink ...)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 12:36:32 PM by manopac » Logged

sex, lies, and videopac
Rene_G7400
Pedit5
I take the Videopac and leave the Canoli!
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2009, 06:07:52 PM »

maybe you should make a differentiation of "prototype" -> pre-release version of a game which is different from the release (or not released at all) and "review-version"/"pirated-version" -> same as released version, review if coming from Philips/Magnavox, pirated if coming from unknown source ...

I think it's a good idea to make a differentiation like that, but it might not be easy. For example, I'm sure there are illegal copies (loose Eprom's) of games which have not been released. In which category should those be placed? And for each prototype-like cart you have to find out if there are any differences between this cart and the released version (if it's not a unique game).
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steelballs
Attacked the Timelord
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2009, 06:21:23 PM »

I think this one will always be difficult to clarify and lets not forget not every videopac collector on the planet is 100% active here, so it remains difficult to establish what is actually out there (this also applies to all the rarity lists, good that Andy puts the effort into making them but they can only be used as an indication rather than as a definitive guide to how rare games actually are in my opinion).
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ANDYRYALS
Give this man a Jopac!
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Posts: 1302


Oh Bollocks can I afford that Ebay item?


« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2009, 06:58:10 PM »

Definition = copied from Wikipedia ... dude, you should really give credit if you don't write things yourself ...

and your definition of alpha and beta is quite confusing ... as the words are already used in software development to tell how far a version actually is like in "alpha" -> more or less a playable demo with features still missing and "beta" as a feature-finished game before playtesting and removal of bugs

maybe you should make a differentiation of "prototype" -> pre-release version of a game which is different from the release (or not released at all) and "review-version"/"pirated-version" -> same as released version, review if coming from Philips/Magnavox, pirated if coming from unknown source ... (like those baaaaad Philips employee's back in the days Wink ...)

1. OK, credit giving to Wikipedia

2. I like Alpha and Beta differentiation of the Proto's so I'm keeping it seen as I'm going to the effort of keeping the list.

3. It's difficult to seperate the true proto's, the pirates, and the pre-release versions. I have a stack of pirate eproms, I have several games which have
    never been released, and I have several version of released games. Using Alpha & Beta proto's keep's it simple and into 2 groups. There is a simple
   explanation on the list as to why this system has been used.
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Seob
Give this man a Jopac!
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Posts: 1385



« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2009, 08:35:40 PM »

Hi andy, you have put a l to much in the philips brand-name in the rumored prototype section. Could be that it's intentional so you don't get sued for using the philips brand name Wink.
You haven't noted nacht vlucht as a different proto but put it behind air battle + graphics.
At the rumored section you have The Mousing Cat (labeled Kist em Muis). I think the dutch label would say "kat en muis".
And i have a corrected review of the prototypes i tested since it's full of misspellings.

Air Battle proto.
After i got my eyes back in my face, we fired up a g7400 and first put in v58+ to see what the graphics where. Since Steelballs didn't have the manual for the game we couldn't get the plane in the air. After trying a few times we decided to put in the prototype and see how that looked. First thing we noted was that it is the non + version of the game. And since we didn't got the plane in the air we decided to move on to the next cart.

Nightfigter aka nachtvlucht proto
After a little study and pressing different button on the keyboard and joystick we got the plane in the air. Some more pressing and we found out that a lot of keys where used. (i forgot to take the manual with me that rene posted here) And some more studying of the instruments and crashing we where able to find the enemy. After trying the cannons and air missiles we decided to use the bomb and shot the enemy into pieces. But we had used to much fuel to get the plane back to the base. Eventually we got the enemy and returned with enough fuel to the airport but we never succeed in landing the plane. I think its a great game. It's also a game that really uses the keyboard active in the gameplay. And for the videopac limitations it's a "real" flight sim. This game didn't have any + graphics.

Martian Threat
Already on our second try we got our highscore into the 1000 points. It's graphical a great game. It doesn't use + graphics but it still is one of the most impressive graphical games that uses standard g7000 hardware. For game play, well we didn't like it to much. The only thrill is to get a higher score every time you play. It is not very hard to get into 1000 points and the game never is very tactical. What we did notice is that if you die with less then 1000 point, the end screen shows a ufo shooting at the earth, and when the earth is hit it turns red. The first time you get 1000+ points and you die you get a different ending. This time there's a shot from earth that hits the ufo. The ufo then breaks into pieces. After this the only time you see this ending again is by getting a higher highscore.

Robot city
With this game we had the most fun. The first level is not to easy but also not to hard. It's just right. The second level is already a greater challenge. Sometimes it really looks as if the aliens are trying to close you in, and the further you get it seems as if the aliens are working more and more together. We haven't made it pas level 4 yet but it really is a addictive game. It also doesn't have + graphics, but it also doesn't need them to be a really great game.
This truly could be a game that is worth releasing.

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Rene_G7400
Pedit5
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2009, 08:47:10 PM »

You haven't noted nacht vlucht as a different proto but put it behind air battle + graphics.

Yes, Nacht Vlucht = Night Fighter = Comando Noturno (although the roms are not exactly the same).

In the Rumoured Section, Red Baron would be 58+, not 59+
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Seob
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« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2009, 09:48:38 AM »

My frogger proto uses the same pcb as rene's robot city proto.
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